MacPhail and Markakis

[Crazysilver03]

Age is one way. I prefer experience.

Look at Markakis v. Maglio following their 3rd complete season in the majors, 2006-8 vs. 1998-2000.

Maglio had his second 30+ HR season, a 126 RBI following 117 RBI season by his 3rd full year. Markakis 20 following 23. Maglio had a SLG in his 2nd and 3rd full season of .510 and .546 compared with Markakis' .485 & .491

The fatal flaw with this logic is that Markakis played three years in the minors and so his 3rd MLB season was just his 6th professional season.

Ordonez had six years in the minors so his 3rd MLB season was his 9th professional season, not very equal in terms of development.

[Andy_Dufresne]

The fatal flaw with this logic is that Markakis played three years in the minors and so his 3rd MLB season was just his 6th professional season.

Ordonez had six years in the minors so his 3rd MLB season was his 9th professional season, not very equal in terms of development.

It's what you do in the major league that counts. By the time both players had 3 full seasons in the Majors Maglio was the more accomplished player. Better for average and power, better driving in runs, and, if memory serves, the more feared hitter.

The initial point was whether Markakis would be the best RF in baseball, or close to it. My feeling is that he'll be right below that level, which is occupied by Maglio and Vlad in the AL.

[Crazysilver03]

It's what you do in the major league that counts. By the time both players had 3 full seasons in the Majors Maglio was the more accomplished player. Better for average and power, better driving in runs, and, if memory serves, the more feared hitter.

The initial point was whether Markakis would be the best RF in baseball, or close to it. My feeling is that he'll be right below that level, which is occupied by Maglio and Vlad in the AL.

In 2008:

Markakis: .306/.406/.491/.897

Guerrero: .303/.365/.521/.886

Ordonez: .317/.376/.494/.870

Well, based on OPS, Markakis was better than both Guerrero and Ordonez.

Plus, you are asking if he could/would be currently or in the future, which gives Markakis the advantage as he is entering his prime and the other two are leaving their prime.

[Andy_Dufresne]

In 2008:

Markakis: .306/.406/.491/.897

Guerrero: .303/.365/.521/.886

Ordonez: .317/.376/.494/.870

Well, based on OPS, Markakis was better than both Guerrero and Ordonez.

Plus, you are asking if he could/would be currently or in the future, which gives Markakis the advantage as he is entering his prime and the other two are leaving their prime.

You are right. Then angelos should offer Markakis a 5 year $85 million contract, or more.

Didn't Vlad get 5/70 & Maglio get 5/85

[Crazysilver03]

You are right. Then angelos should offer Markakis a 5 year $85 million contract, or more.

Didn't Vlad get 5/70 & Maglio get 5/85

Yes Vlad and Magglio got those contracts, when they were free agent.

Markakis isnt a free agent for 3 more seasons so offering him a 5/85 is not going to happen.

He will be lucky to earn $15-20M over those 3 years of arbitration and even after that he may not be worth more than $14M a season.

[Andy_Dufresne]

Yes Vlad and Magglio got those contracts, when they were free agent.

Markakis isnt a free agent for 3 more seasons so offering him a 5/85 is not going to happen.

He will be lucky to earn $15-20M over those 3 years of arbitration and even after that he may not be worth more than $14M a season.

Which is exactly why I compared him less favorably then Vlad and Maglio. It is experience not age that matters, after all.

[Crazysilver03]

Which is exactly why I compared him less favorably then Vlad and Maglio. It is experience not age that matters, after all.

I don't follow this logic?

Markakis get's a smaller contract because (even though he was better in 2008) he still doesn't have enough major league experience to warrant a larger contract, partly because of the circumstance of being under club control for the next three seasons.

I dont see why you should compare him less favorably because of that.

[DrungoHazewood]

It's what you do in the major league that counts. By the time both players had 3 full seasons in the Majors Maglio was the more accomplished player. Better for average and power, better driving in runs, and, if memory serves, the more feared hitter.

The initial point was whether Markakis would be the best RF in baseball, or close to it. My feeling is that he'll be right below that level, which is occupied by Maglio and Vlad in the AL.

Yea, because he was older.

[Andy_Dufresne]

Yea, because he was older.

Then bring Conine, Surhoff and Cordova back, they're older, too

[Lucky Jim]

Then bring Conine, Surhoff and Cordova back, they're older, too

You're just out-of-your-depth in this conversation. No big deal. You value who you value. We'll value who we value.

None of us are GMs.

[Andy_Dufresne]

You're just out-of-your-depth in this conversation. No big deal. You value who you value. We'll value who we value.

None of us are GMs.

Just because I think that Vlad and Maglio, at the same experience level, and even today, are better than Markakis, is no reason to step away from using facts to insults.

[Lucky Jim]

Just because I think that Vlad and Maglio, at the same experience level, and even today, are better than Markakis, is no reason to step away from using facts to insults.

I didn't really mean it as an insult. I apologize if it was insulting.

We're using statistics to explain something that you're not inclined to listen to, or apparently versed-enough to fully appreciate.

That's no big deal. I was out-of-my-depth in Mashed Potatoes' neural network discussion, and I'm not insulted by that.

[Brady9Fan]

It's not McPhail I've lost faith in, it's the organizational structure as a whole. If there were orders from the top to sign such and such, anyone would make it happen, that is their job on the line. If it was more of a "make it known you are in the bidding but don't do anything stupid" then that is an entirely different problem. 11 seasons of losing and raising ticket prices and $7 beers is a horrible idea that comes from above the GM.

Sell to Cal, Sell to Cal, Sell to Cal...would be the chant I'd start if I were actually going to spend money to go to a game this year.

The fact that AM never got the GM title confuses me. What's the difference between his Prez of Babseball Operations & a GM? Maybe the GM title sounds too powerful to Petey...?

I agree...sell the team to Cal. Petey needs to get out of town.